Okay - gun news. I know this has been a long time coming.
Several months ago (April? I think? Damn, that was a while back…), I asked for people’s favorite gun models for concealed carry. Tam picked up the slack and sent out a call for help for me. I got something like 600 hits that day, and quite a few comments.The guns suggested were .357 - mainly for the use of .38 Special ammo for practice (though that’s been kind of ruled out, given that .38 will gunk up a .357 and make it impossible to load - so I might just go with a .38, period). The consensus appears to be that .357 and .38 are the best personal protection weapons for someone to use, because they’re easier to shoot than larger calibers, pack a bigger punch than a .22, and are still fairly easy to conceal.
The following weapons were all suggested:
Bersa Thunder Glock (19, 33)Kimber Custom TLE IIRossi 971 - only used available (although, looking on the site, the R35202 seems to fit my needs )Ruger SP101 (the gun I was originally considering)S&W (637, 686, K-frame [J-frame/Airweight was suggested, but debunked by an instructor], 36LS)
Speer 135gr bullets were also suggested. Though “inexpensive” is really the only ammo requirement I’ll have until I’m done selecting a weapon and practicing a shitload. I’m not going to carry (therefore won’t need “awesome” ammo) until I’m good and ready, in all aspects.
I’m narrowing this list down to 4 guns to test and make my decision from. I don’t have the time, nor the money to test out 15 different guns. And there’s no need for that, either - if I give myself too many options, a decision will be harder to come by. I think 4 is fair enough.
From what I’ve seen so far, the S&W are the top contenders, with the K-Frame out in the forefront as one of the best choices.
Granted, I’d posted that I was considering an SP101, which skewed the suggestions into the realm of revolvers, so pistols haven’t been researched as much as they might have been otherwise. The Glocks are the main contenders for that area.
Due to ammo pricing, the .357 and .380 models have all been scrapped (this kills the Ruger as a choice, too). I took out the .45 that was suggested, because the last time I shot a .45 - well, let’s just say I’m going to wait until I have a little more experience before I try that again. This leaves me with the following:
Glock 19 (9mm)
Springfield XD Sub-Compact 3″ (9mm)
The Rossi is the best, price-wise, from what I can tell on gunbroker.com. The Taurus is pretty decently priced, too. The S&W prices vary wildly depending on the seller. The Glock and XD are probably going to be “backup purchases”, to be tried/bought only if the .38’s don’t work out.
So the 4 that I am going to try are the Rossi, both S&W’s, and the Taurus.
t3rrible suggested a gun shop on Summer here in Memphis to talk to - I will likely do that here soon. She also said she’d come with me to the range to shoot, but I haven’t heard from her since that one post, and she has no contact info on either her blog or her profile. Kaylee? You still exist, don’t you? Contact info page. Sidebar. Email me. Thanks. :-)
My last hurdle before the testing/shooting and the final purchase is finding these guns to shoot in the first place. Such a specific list is bound to carry with it some issues as far as locating practice arms goes, but if I’m limited and have to try something else, so be it. This is just my guideline to let me know what I need to be on the lookout for. I have several friends who have quite a few guns to their name, and whom have all agreed to come with me to practice and choose a weapon. I’m going to see what they have and go from there.
Am I going about this the right way? I think, given my circumstances, this is the only way I can do it.
And yes, I will be planning to take a class - I have to in order to get my handgun permit in TN, which is required to purchase a gun. The receipt of my permit will take at least 6 weeks from the time of application. So I’ll have plenty of time to practice at a range before this whole thing is finished. I’m researching classes now.
So…there’s that, for now. The delay has been from lack of proper funding. The class can cost around $100, depending on where you go, the permit costs $115, the gun’s probably going to cost $400, and then there’s the cost of ammo, maintenance, and range time. So this is an expensive endeavor if you do it legally and correctly.
Any insight, suggestions, etc, are welcome, as usual.
EDIT TO NEW FOLKS: Okay - so I’m getting the impression that the J-frame isn’t a bad choice as a gun. That’s fine, but the reason I think this instructor said it wasn’t a good idea was that it can be kind of hard to handle for a beginner. Me = beginner.
I’m taking an “Intro to Handguns” course next Monday, which will give me a chance to try out a bunch of different guns to figure out what works.
I will also be able to find out if I’m up to the challenge of the more frequent maintenance of a .357 shooting .38 rounds, or if I need to stick with a .38.
The “buy a .22 first” advice is sound - but I won’t be able to afford to buy another gun for quite a while after this first purchase. So this purchase? Needs to be my main weapon. I have two .22’s I can practice with if I really need to - they just don’t belong to me, and the owner and I haven’t been able to coordinate range time, because obviously I’m not going to take those with me to the gun range by myself.
I hope that clears up a few things.
Fire away. :-)
Forgive me, Squeaky, for this, but I’m seeing so much about everybody’s guns all over the blogosphere I gotta ask…
Being from Georgia, I guess I missed the whole schmear on why it’s all a big deal. We don’t talk about our guns. They’re just a normal part of everyday life since we’re surrounded by hunters. I’ve assisted in reloading shotgun shells in my day, and I’ve shot at a range (if you can call a beercan on a fence a “range”) Granted not too many out here actually *carry* handguns (primarily it’s rifles and shotguns). But *concealed*? Why? Why hide it? I missed that point somewhere.
I don’t have one, though, for two reasons: One, cost and Two, I sleepwalk when I’m stressed. And I’m a very active sleepwalker and nobody would find me for days…
Well, we don’t talk about our guns in person, either, unless we’re with someone we can “talk shop” with, or we’re going to a range, or the subject is brought up by someone wanting to know more info. No one just casually talks about it that I know of. The blogosphere is a safe-ish place to talk about it simply because you don’t HAVE to come back and look at comments, so if someone’s got an argument or wants to berate you for being a “gun nut”, then you don’t have to answer to them or listen to them. You can walk away more easily. Teh intarwebs are also a great resource for finding out more info, as I’m doing. Tam is a veritable gold-mine of information, as is TD - and if they can’t answer something, they have SOMEone within range (no pun intended) who can.
As far as concealed-carry goes, you can’t carry openly in my county…I don’t think you can carry openly in my state, even. The permit is for possession for concealed carry ONLY.
There are several reasons why CC is preferable, at least right now:
1 - Cops will harass the ever-loving hell out of you if you have a weapon that they can see. And some shops will deny you entry. Also, being that there’s a stigma about guns in general (because they’re animate objects with a thirst for blood, apparently), you’re liable to get strange looks and bitchy comments from the general population if a gun is viewed on your person.
2 - This is a low-possibility reason, but if you’re in a place where someone wants to commit a crime, and they see you before you see them…you’re liable to be the first one shot if your gun is visible. No gun-carrier = no competition for the criminal. Same with a hostage situation. You’re a prime target if you’re caught off-guard by someone who knows you’re packing.
So it basically comes down to how much attention you want to draw to yourself, if it’s not a matter of legality.
Does that answer your question? Or did I miss the point?
You can put the SP101 back on your list; Ruger makes a .38 version. Honestly, I don’t see a reason to eliminate .357s from consideration; cleaning out any chamber fouling left by firing .38s in a .357 isn’t THAT hard.
On the revolver side I’d eliminate the Rossi and Taurus on quality grounds. Yes there are a lot of happy owners out there, but there’s more than a few horror stories too. My choice would be an older, used Smith.K-frame, preferably stainless, or the Ruger SP101.
For the autos, I like the Glock 19 just fine. Haven’t fired the XD, but I’ve played with them and heard from a lot of happy owners. The Kahr CW-9 is worth a look too.
Whatever you buy, you should be comfortable with it both physically and psychologically. If it doesn’t fit you it’s not the right gun, no matter how many people on the Intarwebz recommend it.
Oh, you’re gonna need a holster and belt, too. Hopefully some of the female gunbloggers can help you out with that. Women are shaped funny and holsters for normal people don’t always work for them :-)
That may explain the difference. Our laws are just the opposite: You HAVE to carry openly UNLESS you have a concealed carry permit(copied and pasted):
This law does not permit, outside of a person’s home, motor vehicle, or place of business, the concealed carrying of a pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm by any person unless that person has on his or her person a valid license issued under Code Section 16-11-129 and even then the person may only carry the pistol, revolver, or concealable firearm only in a shoulder holster, waist belt holster, or any other holster (ankle holster, crotch holster, fanny pack holster, pocket holster,ect) and also a hipgrip or any other similar securing device at which point the weapon MAY BE concealed by the person’s clothing, or handbag, purse, briefcase, or any other close container. (concealed carry is NOT required to carry a firearm. Firearms can be openly carried, however in each case; the firearm MUST be carried in a holster or other type of securing device)
And we’re not too heavy on the high-crime areas unless you’re in the ‘hood or in one of the more major cities (Atlanta, Savannah, Macon, Columbus, Albany or Augusta). And around here… we ain’t.
Folks just mainly stash their hunting rifles in the gun cabinet at the house and in the proverbial gunrack in the pickup and lay their handgun in the dashboard but mostly they don’t pack on their person unless they’re on the job.
Just a different area ;)
Oh yeah…cops don’t harrass gun owners here. It’s more or less expected that everybody is ;)
Hey, Babs. I know folks from Thomasville, Waynesboro, Cumming, Gainesville, Dahlonega, and elsewhere in small town GA that CCW every day. :)
Squeaky Wheel,
A Tennessee HCP is just that; a handgun carry permit, and doesn’t mandate concealment. Although if one lives in a metro area, it’s probably a good idea to cover up your iron, as young ColtCCO found out. :(
:)
Those are big towns on our scale.
That could make the difference.
Well, except for Waynesboro. Though if that town is still as bad as it was when I went to Junior High school there, I understand that one. It was God-Awful. I was scared to go to school everyday.
Not trying to challenge you on it, just trying to understand. ‘Cause I just don’t *get* it. :) I’m doing good to keep up with my pocketbook, keys, and cell phone. And if I take my driver’s license or bank card out, good luck finding them again for awhile (too many irons in the fire). That’d be just one more thing to have to keep up with. (laugh with me)
I left a URL to a pistol I have personal experience with. It a decent shooter, although if you buy it new it’s overpriced, so try to find it used. this with 3 speed strips is a very reliable pistol.
I left a URL to a pistol I have personal experience with. It a decent shooter, although if you buy it new it’s overpriced, so try to find it used. this with 3 speed strips is a very reliable pistol.
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=306&category=Revolver
Babs - the attitude of the people you live around can make all the difference, definitely. I’m sure you saw (I daresay before I did) that Tam posted that we are allowed open carry here in TN - but like I said, it’s not recommended due to the attitude of the government and the local law enforcement. In my city, you’re liable to get knocked down and threatened if you’re seen with a gun.
And I get that you’re not arguing with me - I’m still learning, too, as you can see. :-) I’m a little worried about certain aspects of carrying, but I figure it’ll become second-nature to me at some point, as having my watch on my wrist and my cell phone in my purse have become. I don’t leave my house without either, even to go next door to TB’s parents’ house.
TD - I’ve forgotten about that…that Ruger makes a .38…whoops. And the reason I don’t want to get a .357, aside from the cost of ammo and the constant-cleaning of .38 residue, is because I don’t want to be thrust into the world of gun maintenance to such an extent that I get frustrated and overwhelmed too easily. I mean, obviously, I won’t completely rule it out, but if I can ease into gun ownership, I’m going to. And I’ll take the Taurus and Rossi off - I figured they couldn’t be awesome guns because I’d never heard of them before that one day of my first post, but I’m willing to give whatever a shot if I can afford it. The price of being poor. :-)
Tam - thanks for that clarification. I’ve been told some conflicting things on that end.
Mark - that link took me to a blank page on the Taurus site…I tried all 3 links that were posted (the ones attached to your name, as well as the one you posted), and none of them work.
I’ve got the .40 version of the 3″ XD, and it is my favorite gun to shoot, and not bad to carry. It fits my hand better and the trigger is nicer than my Glock,
I wouldn’t worry about .38 residue–Just don’t shoot .357 after 38 without cleaning first. I never noticed more difficulty cleaning my Ruger .357 after shooting .38’s in it.
If you are going to get a revolver, I’d stick with S&W or Ruger.
If you don’t have an immediate need for a defensive gun, strongly consider starting with a .22. First, learning on a .22 will accelerate your progress, and is less likely to reinforce bad habits and flinching. Second, if you are going to practice a lot in the beginning, .22 is a small fraction of the cost of even the cheapest centerfire, making it easier to afford your next gun.
I’ve got a S&W 642 Airweight in my pocket right now. Same basic gun as the 637 you mention, except with a hidden hammer) Not sure what the instructor was talking about when he debunked the Airweight–The 637 is also an Airweight, but it has a traditional hammer (that can get caught when drawing from a pocket, the reason for the other two hammer types) Not particularly pleasant to shoot, more difficult to shoot accurately at distance, but very nice to carry. I prefer hammerless, because in a real-world situation you won’t be cocking first anyhow.
If you need a gun, A .38 in your pocket is better than a .45 in your safe.
[...] At least she’s narrowed it down but go offer some input. [...]
You mentioned the Bersa Thunder… I just wanted to say that I have one. They are super cheap ($200ish), but small and reliable. They won’t feed all ammo equally, but any good ammo (including JHPs) feed fine. I’ve had about 4 or 5 FTFs in about 500 rounds of cheap range ammo. None with FMJs or JHPs.
If you don’t want to spend a lot of cash, the Bersa is a good gun. The .380 cartridge, although not ideal, is better than a lot of other options, and it is cheap and usually easy to find. They also make a 9mm version, which would probably be better.
If you don’t mind spending the $$, get a better gun… but otherwise, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Bersa.
My advice would be to buy as much/as high quality a gun as possible. As your first and primary firearm, its likely going to see a lot of practice and a lot of carry. Based on just those two criteria, I’d cross the Taurus and Rossi off the list, and eliminate the Bersa twice. While little Smith wheelguns have their place, I would again hesitate to recommend them for a first gun that will be a moderate volume shooter.
Personally, I’d go with the Glock or XD. The Glock has a longer track record, but I’m not a huge fan. The XD is newer, a little safer IMO, and more ergonomically sound, and the 6K rounds I’ve put thru my XD40 have convinced me that it’s a solid platform that I wouldn’t hesitate to bet my life on.
I’d narrow it to those two. Rent them and shoot a few hundred rounds with each. Buy the one you can shoot the best. All will be well. :)
Squeek sorry,
It’s the Taurus 3 in blued 5 shot .38 special with the round butt. I’ve owned several Taurus firearms over the years and I’ve put over 10k rounds through my model 62 .38, the 3 inch model gives you a longer sight radius, and a little bit less muzzle flash and recoil, while still maintaining concealability. the speed strips are easier to conceal than speed loaders, and with practice you can reload just as fast.
Advice to Squeaky Wheel…
Sqeaky Wheel is looking for first time gun buying advice. I’m going to assume she’s not completely novice shooting, because I advise novices to start with an inexpensive .22LR semi-auto, work out the basics, and then move up to a pistol wi…
My wife carries snub nose .38’s and uses a belly band, a belt holster, a thigh holster or a fanny pack, depending on her attire and stiuation.One of the revolvers is a Taurus with an exposed hammer, the other a S&W with a shrouded hammer.
Squeaky Wheel, you may be interested in the Cornered Cat site that offers a page on concealment holsters as well as a cornucopia of other practical advice.
http://corneredcat.com/